Both parties have initiated the negociations in good faith and in a good spirit o fsharing each other's point of view. Some important negociation steps have already been achieved.
However, tomorrow will be critical with the very key points beeing put on the table.
We will be very careful regarding thoses points in comparison with the European standard EWC directive, that would take place for Oracle in May 2007 if no agreement is achieved before.
We have reasonable hope to manage to reconciliate management and representatives positions.
We'll keep you posted.
France Special Negociation Group Representant.
These comments are purely individual and are not to be considered as representatives of the whole SNB Body.
We recommand reading the article from Steve Lohr Published June 24, 2005 in the The New York Times.
13000 Jobs are beeing shutdown'ed in Europe/US while 14,000 are created in India.
Again a very interesting post submitted by one of our readers, from Richard HoffmanEditor, Developer Pipeline, showing the state of mind of US IT professionals.
Please note the "Better Job security and increased wages" ... We're on the same line from both sides of the Ocean...
Editor's Note: Some Cold, Hard Numbers On Outsourcing
Greetings, colleagues!
The final numbers are in for our offshore outsourcing poll, and it's pretty much as grim as we reported last week. One out of 20 of you (5%) say "bring it on," another 5% say outsourcing actually benefits you, and a few, 3%, say if you can't beat 'em, join 'em—you said, whether tongue-in-cheek or not, that you're going to relocate yourself offshore. Another 20% say you're worried, but not too much—it hasn't directly affected your working life yet. However, a large majority, 59% of you, say that offshoring is a big, big problem, right now. And in an echo of the previous poll on IT workplace conditions, almost one out of ten of you who responded said that you're bailing out of IT entirely.
So bottom-line, 13% of you are pretty positive about offshore outsourcing in one way or another, 20% are worried but neutral, and 68% have already been burned. Wow. With numbers like that, it's hard to put a positive spin on it. Almost seven out of ten of you don't like what's happening out there at all. So now that we have the results, what do you think about them?
One of our recent articles is a refrain of the song you're clearly singing here, suggesting that the pressures and challenges of outsourcing-centric development, including the move towards 24-hour development cycles, is already causing serious strain and difficulties.
Could these difficulties have contributed to Sears recently bailing out of a huge, $1.6 billion outsourcing deal with Computer Sciences Corporation only months into the project? So far, nobody is saying anything about the cause of the split, but if you have an opinion, or even better, an inside scoop, let us know - we'd love to hear what you have to say.
Speaking of opinions, many of you continued to chime in over the past weeks with strong, clear thoughts on the topic. Here are a few of them:
Terry R. notes a potential cause and effect between outsourcing and a shortage in Computer Science graduates in the Unites States:
Now that outsourcing has caused a significant reduction in Computer Science enrollment some leaders are saying that we need to boost enrollment or lose our lead in IT. Of course no one has suggested the obvious solution, better job security and increased wages.
In a nutshell, it is foolish to think the US can send our high tech jobs overseas to lower costs and still maintain our lead. Engineers and programmers are bright people, if they can't make a good living in IT they will go to a field where they can.
Of course a significant shortage of U.S. programmers will, due to the basic laws of supply and demand, tend to boost wages for at least some of those who are left. Another way of looking at that, though, is that extremely scarce and expensive U.S. programmers makes bean-counters more likely to want to move development to lower-cost offshore centers, as well as bring in more H1-B workers . What about it? Are we just creating a vicious cycle here?
Phil B. notes an even more ominous trend, speculating that other overriding market forces will put a natural limit on outsourcing of IT:
Surely I've been affected by the outsourcing, however in my opinion that trend has no future. Never mind all the quality problems, missed deadlines etc plaguing the outsourcers. The key factor that will undermine the outsourcers is the US dollar which despite short term fluctuations is in the slow motion collapse because of the astronomical US trade deficit. The outsourcers only add to that deficit thereby hastening the dollar's decline.
According to India Daily at 37 rupees to the dollar the indian software sector will be breaking even—at 35 rupees to the dollar they will be closing down; rate has already declined to 43. Any economist will tell you that the dollar has nowhere to go but down given the disastrous US trade situation. Here's the New York University study predicting a collapse no later than 2006.
That situation has now become structural as the US simply does not produce much of the stuff anymore and must import. The outsourcing will die within the next few years at the very most. I think that situation needs to be made widely known
Is this all a moot point, then? If the dollar continues to slide against other currencies, does that make offshore outsourcing impractical? And will that have any impact on other first-world but non-U.S. outsourcing trends? Let us know what you think.
Richard Hoffman
Editor, Developer Pipeline
rhoffman@nwc.com
www.DeveloperPipeline.com
Merci beaucoup de vos questions postées et de votre interêt pour le site.
Q/a) est-ce que les licenciements peuvent quand même avoir lieu pour les collectifs qui ne concernent qu'une seule des deux sociétés?
R/a) La procédure de plan social est un tout, avec un ensemble de mesures qui se veulent cohérentes et liées à une même origine. L'opposition au Plan actuel est justement réalisée dans cet objectif car nous prétendons que des personnes licenciées chez Oracle, pourraient retrouver un reclassement chez Peoplesoft (version fusionnée), et vice versa. Or la conduite du processus actuel ne donne pas de visibilité croisée à chaque Comité d'Entreprise. Il est notamment indispensable que la commission de suivi soit multi-société, comme cela avait été envisagé dans l'accord de méthode, afin de se donner des chances de vraiment reclasser des salariés, susciter des ouvertures de postes, au lieu d'avancer tambour battant pour achever les licenciements le 26 Mai, avant même la fusion !
Il n'en demeure pas moins qu'une nouvelle procédure peut être initiée sur un périmêtre strictement Oracle.
Q/b) Ma compréhension est que la consultation à propos de la fusion est séparée de celle du plan social. Qu'en est-il de l'avis du CE à propos de la fusion? Sera-t-il rendu avant le 15 avril ou non?
R/b) L'interêt de tous est effectivement de réaliser la fusion dans les meilleurs délais. C'est effectivement l'objet de la consultation du CE au titre du livre 4, pour laquelle la direction attend un avis intermédiaire, 'avis d'étape', ne couvrant que l'aspect juridique de la fusion. Pour autant, il est absolument indispensable qu'une information loyale, écrite et exhaustive soit fournie par la direction sur cette fusion. C'est sur ce point que les choses semblent patiner, car malgré une bonne volonté affichée par la direction, les informations arrivent à la toute toute dernière minute.
Le CE jugera de manière souveraine, avec ses experts (qui font des heures sups encore a cette heure...) s'il a effectivement eu le temps d'etudier toutes les informations lui permettant de rendre un avis.
Q/c) Dans le cas où Oracle décide d'envoyer les lettres de licenciement comme prévu, qu'elle devrait être la démarche des salariés concernées: continuer à chercher un autre emploi ou attendre que la situation soit juridiquement réglée? Et dans ce cas, quelles seraient les possibles issues?
R/c) Le processus de licenciement ne peut se dérouler qu'après l'avis du CE et de l'inspection du travail. Il serait suicidaire à la direction de passer outre. Par contre, il est tout à fait possible qu'elle intente le cas échéant une action juridique pour exiger la remise de l'avis en considérant la position du CE comme totalement infondée et entravant délibérément la procédure. Pour le moment, c'est plutot le CE qui prend les devants en envisageant l'action en justice pour suspendre la consultation dans l'attente de la fusion.
PS. Cf également les commentaires ci-dessous (suivre "comment").
